>> thank you so much for being here. we appreciate everything you do. you are so articulate. >> thank you. i appreciate that. >> is an issue. you wrote a book about it. you are so interested in what is happening. you have an update on what is happening now? >> for the past year-and-a-half really we have been stuck in his waiting man because everything is caught up in the court system. and everything's caught up in the court system it's impossible to get documents and talk to people because there is an ongoing lawsuit. we have seen some movement over the past month with judicial watch which is a phenomenal organization if you have not art about it. getting a hearing in front of a judge saying the executive privilege claim by barack obama overall these documents, you know, it's taking too long for united decision and we have a freedom of information request lawsuit out that this to be responded to. it has been far too long.

there good at giving details that even congress is not capable of getting. so really we're here to see what a judge is going to decide which will determine whether we will get any more determination about what happens. i am hopeful that we will at least seem more documentation, we just going have to wait and see. all right. thanks, guys. [applause] >> you are watching 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books on c-span2 book tv. television for serious readers. historian an episcopal priest examines the roles of religion play in the election and defeat of former president jimmy carter. the author reports that the camera to the progressive evangelicalism was a factor in his winning 1976 election. however, the same events of the population is supportive of that in a president's first campaign deserted him for years later in

favor from reagan. this is just over an hour. >> welcome. it is a pleasure tonight to introduce randall bomber who is the family professor of arts and sciences at dartmouth college. i have followed his career for a long time. his undergraduate work was done at a school where my father was at dean. my brother attended the school at the same time. and randy has turned into one of our great modern american historians. one of the things that makes them great is, he really minds the resources of presidential libraries. he has come here to the library, gunther and found very interesting documents that other people had not seen before. he has done that at other presidential libraries. combined with that he has also mined the resources of the

archives on various evangelical organizations that have become involved in politics. and can addition to that on top of his research skills he is an excellent writer. so i have had the privilege of reading many of his books including the one that has just come out. and i can tell you that as much as i have of these subjects and the maya research that there were many points when i came across new information and said, while, that really explains what's going on. so if you want to understand the difference in the united states between the 1970's and 1980's and in case you have forgotten, there were significant differences and you want to know about the transition to a time when jimmy carter was president to a time when ronald reagan was president, if you want to understand the role that polygram and american politics, the role of jerry falwell and

american politics, this is the book for you. i highly recommend it. as i say, i read it personally and thought it fascinating. i think all of you will. and before you rush out to buy the book you have the privilege of hearing comments by the author itself. [applause] i give you randall balmer. [applause] >> thank you for that very kind introduction. it is wonderful to be back here. the carter center. the last time i was here the museum was being refurbished. i spent more than three hours this afternoon going through the exhibit. they had to chase me awake. i was utterly and roast. and i probably learned a few things that did not know before going through the museum.

i want to talk little bit tonight obviously. tell you, first of all, my interest in it, as jay indicated, i went to college, a small college in northern illinois, not weaken college, but i went to a small school called trinity college in the early 1970's. and it was during my time there as an undergraduate at jimmy carter burst out on the national scene. "was so remarkable to me was that he talked unabashedly about being a born-again christian which is the term we use to describe ourselves except we were always cal warring what we did that. and carter was not. he came on scene and said, yes, i am a born-again christian. and given my life to jesus. for me and for many other evangelicals as was the kind of wake-up call. a man he was running for

president and being taken seriously as a candidate for president who was able to talk about his faith in very unabashed, unapologetic terms. i began taking notice of that. and i followed his career rather closely over the years. resolved at some point out wanted to write a book. and have to say, the have been kind of brewing which this idea for at least two decades now. over the last decade or so i spent a good bit of time doing the research and pilot around to writing this book when my schedule permitted me to do that. and i want to say that i think others are always making plans for themselves which may not be justified, but i think it is the first biography of jimmy carter to take his faith seriously is way of understanding both himself, his conduct but also the very turbulent religious

times in which she lived. that is what i want to talk about a little bit today because i think that is really the core of the book. all just to a few things. jimmy carter was born october october 1st 1924. he is the first president ever born in oslo because his mother was a kind of itinerant nurse. he was able to be born in hospital for the first time in american history. in jim carter went to play in high school and went on to the u.s. naval academy which had been his dream ever since it was a boy. and then me, was commissioned into the navy, accepted and rickover's submarine program from a nuclear submarine program and in 1953 his father earl carter senior succumbs to his tupac a day habit. jimmy carter was granted leave

to go back to planes and attend his father's bedside. that was aired revelatory moment because he saw what his father's life had meant to so many people , things they did not know about his father, the time, for example, that he provided money to a family so that they could buy new clothes to celebrate their daughter's graduation from high school. something that they could not have afforded to do otherwise. that time that he carried people's mortgages when they were too poor or too strapped to do so. the times that he had extended credit to various people in the family. and he returned to his posting in schenectady, new york wanting to have a life much more like his father had to do the kinds of good things that his father had done in the community to his decision to leave was rosalynn carter who was not amused by this development.

apparently has nearly as i can tell and there are probably people in the audience and confirm or deny this, the car trip from schenectady new york was conducted in almost total silence between the tube. to a very strong-willed people and in this case jimmy carter and. apparently the word divorce propped up at least once in the course of that transition. carter, of course, takes the business, not successful in his first year, less than $200 profit, but then he quickly begins to build this into a growing concern. he also begins to look more broadly at service to the community, including service on the sumter county school board. and then on his 30th birthday, october 1st 1962 jimmy carter gets out of bed and puts on his sunday trousers rather than his

work trousers and goes to america to file for the georgia state senate without having consulted rosalynn before. so when i asked about this about a year ago he said, i still can't believe i did that. he would not dream of making such a decision like that today. times are very different in 1962 than they are now the 21st century. the election, of course, is contested because of widespread corruption. forget the numbers in the museum, but there were something like 420 ballots cast. anomie 300 some registered voters. for some reason the voters managed to vote in alphabetical order down to the second and third letters in the last names. it was really quite a remarkable day for georgia politics. and carter, of course, finds out

about this. he is morally outraged. if you read turning point, which i have to say, i think it is my favorite book of his, it just brussels with moral outrage and righteous indignation because he had been robbed. and he mounts a campaign to win the seat, which he is granted in january of 1963. carter then runs for governor in 1956. he runs as what qualifies in charge at the time as a racial moderate. he was beaten by of all people in georgia, of course, for his segregation laws ways. day after lyndon johnson signed the civil rights act in 1964, he greeted three african-americans in the parking lot of this restaurant. an ax handles threatening to drive them away from meeting in

his restaurant. he did not want that desegregated restaurant. catapult himself to the governorship. that put a lot of money in the campaign. he returns to plans really not sure what is going to do. the family account that had him walking around the fields. and, just not knowing how to proceed. very often with tears in his eyes. and then, of course, the following year he has his famous encounter with his sister ruth carter stapleton, a pentecostal evangelist. he has a recommitment of his life to jesus, which does seem to be a very transformer if. he speaks of that experience not as a born-again experience which occurred back in 1935 in the

plains baptist church but as a renewal, a rejuvenation of his faith. on the heels of that jimmy carter goes on to mention trips, one to lock haven, pennsylvania with other baptist going around knocking on doors to tell people about jesus and again in springfield, massachusetts in november of that year with an american pastor from brooklyn. help me out here. i believe this program. and this was, again, and very formative moment. the end of their weeks together carter asks river cruise, you know, hal is it that he is such a strong christian and a strong believer and how he is so effective in dealing with other people. and he tells carter that the secret to a life of faith or being a good christian as to

things, to love god and to love the person in front of you at any given time. and he repeats those many times of the course of his life as being a formative moment for him he never loses sight of a georgia state house. and in 1970 he launches another campaign, this time successful, to be governor of georgia. this was not a pretty campaign and not much said about this. mr. carter and others. but jimmy carter does court the segregationist vote in this campaign. and in the final days of the campaign he endorses lester maddox who is running for lieutenant governor at that time. they could not succeed themselves, and carter endorses lester maddox and seeks and wins some of the segregation endorsements here in georgia. he is uneasy about that. even at the time. he chosen, you won't like my

campaign, but you will like my administration. there is some evidence that -- i think it is inconclusive, but i think there is some evidence that after that campaign carter apologizes to his primary opponent in that campaign, former governor carl sanders, for carter's conduct during that campaign. but it was not exactly a sterling moment in the life of jimmy carter. think he realizes that and regrets. he takes office as governor of georgia january 12th 1971 and famously says to the people of georgia the time for racial discrimination is over. and this is, in part, what really elevates him in terms of the national profile. the new york times picked up on that. and the following day on the front page there is an article about jimmy carter and his inauguration as governor.

he said to the people of georgia and within several weeks -- actually a couple of months, time magazine put some on the cover as an example of a new south governor also mentioned in that article, but carter is the one who is on the cover of time magazine. carter almost immediately begins to think about running for president after being governor of georgia. maybe even who knows, a few days, 40 begins looking toward larger rises. and, in fact, about the time within a day or two of george mcgovern's cataclysmic loss to richard nixon and the presidential campaign of 1962, carter sits down with others of his advisers and begins to plot out his rise to the presidency four years later. at the end of 1973, at the beginning of 1974 to remarkable

events took place within six months of each other. here the narrative is going to virgil little bit more toward religion and faith. the thanksgiving weekend in 1973 in chicago, illinois, the wabash ymca in the south side of chicago 55 evangelicals need at the ymca and hammer out a document called the chicago declaration of evangelicals social conservatives. and this is a remarkable document in many ways because the strain of evangelicalism that is offered in this document and, by the way, available on the web. it is part of what i call progressive evangelicalism which takes its mandate, i believe, from the new testament when jesus talked about having his father's care for the least of these to be peacemakers and turn

the other cheek. but also historically the antecedent was evangelicals in the 19th century in the early 20th-century soon are very much concerned about those on the margins of society. in the antebellum timeframe in particular coming out of an event that historians call the second great awakening around the turn of the 19th century there was an evangelical reform the impulse that really did reshape american society in profound ways over the course of the 19th century. one of the people associated with this, probably the most important person associated with this movement. but this movement sought to reform society according to the norms of godliness. there were very much involved in abolitionism to try to eradicate discourage of slavery, but they were also involved in such issues as prison reform, though idea of the penitentiary came into vogue at this time.

the idea of a place for criminals could become penitence we hope they could constructively rejoin society in a much more salutary white. in the issue of equal rights for women, including voting rights which of course in the 19th century was a radical idea. evangelicals were very much involved in the formation of common schools, will we think about is public education today, as a way for those on the bottom rungs of society to aspire to a better life, to try to aspire to move into the middle class. other campaigns associated with this movement would be the campaign against dueling which was inaugurated by lyman beecher , a presbyterian minister of connecticut. he thought dueling was barbaric. there were peace crusades in the early part of the 19th century and even a campaign of gun-control in the early part of the 19th century.

all of these were motivated and animated by evangelicals who were trying to make the world a better place. and what i find unites all of these reform process is is that there were directed toward those on the margins of society, those jesus called the least of these. well, this is a tradition with an american evangelicals of the most people don't know about very much. in an 18th-century it was a robust tradition and really did serve to rehabilitate and reform american society in remarkable ways, particularly in antebellum , but it moved over into the 20th century as well. people like william jennings bryan to was during much and evangelicals, failed democratic nominee for president who is very much conscious about women's rights, workers' rights to organize and issues of this sort in the early part of the 20th-century. so these people gathering in chicago in november of 1973

actually trying to rehabilitate this tradition of progressive evangelicals and which at kind of fallen away for various reasons. i don't want to spend time dealing with their right now. and this document contains statements about militarism, about the yawning gap between rich and poor in american society, the scandal that people went to bed hungry anywhere in the world. the equal rights for women which, again, and the early 1970's was something of a radical idea, at least among many religious books. but also the lingering spirit of racism has sought to address these sorts of things. so that is one event that took place, november 1973. less than six months later in athens, georgia. somewhere around here athens,

georgia, there was an event at the university of georgia law school : lot day. and long day is as i'm sure many of you know, a tradition of the university of georgia law school , the law school invites dignitaries, supreme court justices and attorneys general and senators and various other federal people to address. well, the keynote speaker for that event was a senator from massachusetts edward m. kennedy. in the undercard speaker at that event was the governor of georgia, jimmy carter. in the morning kennedy gives his keynote address which had to do with the impeachment proceedings that were unfolding at that time against richard nixon. and carter then addresses the luncheon gathering. carter begins by saying that there were two very important formative influences on his life

in terms of thinkers and theologians. one was someone he quotes very often throughout his life since his time as governor of georgia. he said that the sad duty of politics was to establish justice and some -- in a sinful world. he has quoted that passage often. but he said the second influence, formative influence on him was the great and well known theologian bob dylan his son -- song in particular and going to work at maggie's farm no more was for carter a very important kind of revelatory song about the plight of tenant farmers. he goes on to talk about the fact that among politicians and particularly lobbyists in washington the deck was stacked against ordinary folks. these people, corporations in particular have money to hire lobbyists who very often were

themselves appointed to regulatory agencies regulating their own businesses and corporations. how that was fundamentally unfair. he talked also about georgia's prison population which she had taken a real interest in when he was governor of georgia and said it overwhelmingly the prison population of georgia consisted of those who were poor. and those who were more floyd were able to in effect buy their way out of justice. anti wound up his presentation by sounding some of the populist theme that he was already beginning jurors for his potential presidential run in 1976. in the course of his remarks he noticed a journalist in the audience slipping out. and he figured that this journalist hunter s. thompson from rolling stone magazine, was simply going out to the parking lot to refresh whenever adult

beverage she was consuming that take. turns out that hunter thompson was going to his car to retrieve his tape recorder because he wanted to record something extraordinary. a politician who dared to tell the truth. thompson later described carter's speech as a bastard of the speech. he said it was one of the most respectful speeches if not the most remarkable speech yet ever heard from a politician who was willing to take on powerful interests and speak the truth. so within that six months' time you have, i think, a remarkable just a position of radiology between guinness social concern and a lot of the themes that carter cited in 1974. by the way, 40 years ago this month as when he gave that famous address. carter then, of course, announces his candidacy for the presidency.

the month before to dominica correcting me on this, the month before the gallup organization that conducted a poll. interest in presidents of candid it's under a part of the american people. and among the 32 names are listed jimmy carter's name was not among them. that is how dark a horse he was 20 an ounce for his candidacy for president in 1974. jim carter, of course, went on to iowa and a small towns in new hampshire plan is able to make a name for himself first in the precinct caucuses at the end of january 1976 and then in new hampshire where he really becomes part of the national conversation. and i think that in many ways one of the signal achievements of carter's campaign for president in 1976 was the fact that on march 9th 1976 he beat

george wallace in the florida primary, thereby effectively ending george wallace's ten -- ten year to run for the presidency nearby vanquishing the nation's most meritorious segregationist from political viability. and i don't think jimmy carter gives the credit he deserves for having done that in 1976. he goes on to the democratic national convention where he wins the nomination on the first ballot and then into the general election. he is flying high until he decides to give an interview to playboy magazine which appears on september 20th just a few weeks before the election. and this is the famous interview where he said that he ignores that he had lost after a woman other than his own wife, a statement that for evangelicals is the only on remarkable, utterly and remarkable, but the press picked up on this and made

a huge spectacle of it. then carter began to sink in the polls. he lost 15 percentage points an approval rating on favorability rating after the playboy interview. the election over gerald ford and begins his presidency. i am happy to talk about the presidency itself. i'm conscious of time here. and i'm not going to talk so much about his specific endeavors or accomplishments as president, but i want to focus again on their religious situation that really, i think, is quite remarkable and is the paradox to my take combine the life of jimmy carter. that is, why is it that evangelical voters who had supported him in great numbers in 1976 to turn so dramatically against him for years later in

1980? i think there is a fascinating story. it's one of the stories i try to tell in the book because it is a story that is often misunderstood and, frankly, just wrong. the standard narrative is that by the late 1970's evangelicals were exercised over their roe v. wade ruling of 1970. ..

when. >> after the conference was over they said we cannot agree on the abortion issue. 1971 the baptist convention passed a resolution calling for the legalization of abortion of a resolution they reaffirmed 1970 feared -- in 1974 after roe vs.

wade ruling -- ruling in the kit and 76. including former president of the southern baptist convention in the first baptist church dallas texas expressed his satisfaction with the improving as the appropriate distinction for personal morality and public policy. amassing evidence to say a portion was not the issue from others. what was it? >> a quick story that i will be brief and i will be happy to go into more detail later. a quick story that evangelical preachers in particular organized not to oppose abortion through segregation. the issue was brown v. board of education but first was

the civil rights act of 1964 which forbade racial segregation or discrimination. by 1970 the irs was trying to enforce the provisions of the civil-rights act of 1964 and issued that ruling and opinion in the organization that engages in racial segregation discrimination is not a charitable organization. therefore has no claims on the tax-exempt status. again i am happy to go into details of the case but the issue was the segregation academy that grew up especially in the south after brown v board of education ruling.

and as they try to enforce the ruling which by the way was ratified by the district court on june 30th, 1971 with the case of enforcing that provision, if the irs targeted the of fundamentalist school called bob jones university which did not admit half of the americans to the student body and had an african-american student that lasted half a month and intel out of the of the era of racial mixing did not to admit unburied african-americans so still retaining the racial policies. that is what got the attention of people like jerry falwell the famously

said in some states it is open -- easier to open a massage parlor instead of a school. he had his own academy in virginia and this is what the other creatures and by the way i think they have cooperated this with personal conversations and he is ecstatic about the point. i was trying to get these people involved in politics ever since the goldwater campaign and i could not get them interested. with the school prayer issue , opposition to equal rights amendment, nothing got their attention until the school issue then that is what finally galvanized them into a political movement. a second part of the story

with the bob jones case and savvy enough we needed different issue to have glass -- grass-roots individuals. and from 1978 elections and in minnesota and in iowa something remarkable happened there were three statewide seats up for office and the governorship for all up for grabs. indian idea what dick clark was the incumbent democratic senator.

and going into the election yesterday no poll showed clark ahead with this you as 10 percentage points in those final days of the election. both iowa and minnesota. providers in day would be in the church parking lots in the sunday before the election and and i was clark loses to the pro-life republican and then to capture all three elections. all of them with the pro-life campaign. doing research at university

of wyoming at laramie. it crackles with excitement with resolve of the election. he has the issue to galvanize the new movement. added news is that too full of vintage. and it goes against jimmy carter. >> and even ronald reagan in for whenever the qualities reagan would be the episodic church goer is ending california aside the most liberal abortion bill in the country but by 1980 it was a pro-life position and that

was good enough for of their leaders of the religious right's. it is also compromised and i tread carefully because a lot of people have a great deal of respect for billy graham. throw out the presidential campaign to give assurance to carter's aides in then days later to make full calls to people as the campaign chair to do whatever he could. end of course, carteret is defeated then he begins do

distract his post presidency and i will wrap this up quickly to take questions. >> in one glorious manifestation with the comments he was still the person isn't history were the presidency was a stepping stone and there really does capture what he has done. but it does capture what he has been able to do. and dignity ways jimmy carter received the nation after he had a but they do not grasp how low we were as a nation in the mid-70s in

terms of confidence in ourselves with the confidence and the presidency lyndon johnson lied about the anon and nixon lied about pretty much everything. [laughter] i am exaggerating a little bit but jimmy carter says i will never knowingly lie again. the president would not lie so we rely used to this. and also with his credentials but jimmy carter had many faults i tried touche treat them fairly but

nobody can seriously question training and the moral core that is one of the great things about jimmy carter. i will close by reading and a couple of passages from the epilogue which was my visit in june 2nd essay sending school lesson we will have a couple of quick passage is. cells dirges baptist country with backroads heading south of columbus with the pines and the covered buildings supporting beams like period baptist church, piney growth missionary baptist church in a greater good hope baptist

church. love jesus no matter what. in dili jesus saves. still another sign suggests lake edge shaving cents and then to the boyhood home of jimmy carter will but then the business district is only a block of what lies beyond the retracts a process street now there is a museum commemorating the campaign. now this suburb -- the

summer 76 legions of journalistic and thousands of tourists descended to learn more. then slowly and carter held court to billy corridor through back a few beers to entertain visitors i have another crew joined the peace corps a sister races motorcycles and another sister who is the preacher in a brother who says he wants to be president of united states. then pausing he said i the only save one in the family. >> talk about going to church in meeting after words to go to the presidential house because they cannot find a new copy of the books they gave him the copy to see what the

reaction in would be. and at then he goes on to another event. so i am not of town on old place highway that parallels the seaboard coast that young jimmy carter walked as a boy to sell boiled peanuts for pocket money. all of his life half been characterized as tribal to rise above his circumstances as a country boy midshipmen comment state politician and president and beyond and as a respected world seater

are shaking your hands in once in office long hours of resolve to read every piece of legislation period tension into the monitions of negotiations with success of reelection. with the chronic energy defenders with the soaring interest rates and within the opposition of his own party would not yield to hard-working and longer hours. shadowing the electoral loss but also the repudiation of fetish out to the electorate not recognize everything humanly possible working as

hard as he could to solve these problems? after serving his defeat carter reaffirmed his commitment to redeem his loss santa the habitat for humanity was nothing if there was work to be done to read a disease, building houses, reprimanding dictators and politicians. teaching sunday school school, heading off military confrontations and ending hunger, and making peace. if carter could work hard enough he could accumulate enough merrick to tilt the balance of history in his favor. jimmy carter's commitment of

a success and then to be regarded more farrell would and its other than impresas and if perhaps the ultimate delegation his works of riches this. but even after teaching sunday school and going to church than to dealing with questions for ricocheting as i was going toward archery

for president pushing 90 was a restless and consumed by a phrenic the devil ince. describing continues but those who subscribe to the righteousness can never be certain the head he and him him with the man who is the info. but jimmy carter himself would be the last to go. thank you. [applause] if we will take a few minutes of questions just wait for the microphone.

and we will take 10 minutes of questions. >> the current use of the evangelical in the '60s was hard to differentiate. and now to go back to that fundamentalist at stocks for those fundamental. >> a great question between the two. full of himself and in this is the and and it is not as a cushion in new god and its

ethan stood they are larry of the rations cut in evangelical has been there into compromising and maintained that carnage. there is a distinction between the two. >> i was wondering but the position of antiabortion and expansion of alcohol and guns in georgia. [laughter] of legislative session. >> other people are better

qualified than i. what he is suggesting? and over here is the antiabortion and alcohol and guns are on this side. it seems the opposite. >> in terms of libertarian? yes. is fascinating to me. i don't want to be partisan or contentious but it does strike me on the face as curious that those that talk about less government are willing to work for losses that to say are more interested. and it is on this side of

the spectrum as well. but with that regulation there is a great deal of contradiction. its underscores' those in evangelicals prove this. it is not necessarily a logical issue. they had to be alerted and a guy by the game of if see everett coop who becomes a surgeon general does educate about the abortion issue to talk about moral decay but as i said until 1979.

>> what about his openness to speak? and bill clinton spoke about this very freely and comfortably and there was an article in "the new york times" he is still feel comfortable speaking about faith in does not reference the literature go to a service publicly so to think his legacy she could open and sustain or the door has closed? >> what a wonderful question. i address this issue called god in the white house and i argue that john kennedy's address on september 12th 1960 at the rice hotel

really did established the idea of american politics that faith is separate and what he did was tell voters effectively with his roman catholicism. and i argue that kennedy paradigm but how many people here could tell us what the johnsons' religious affiliation was? [laughter] >> most people say baptist but most people don't know that. it simply was not part of the conversation. in a backhanded way i think nixon introduces it because when the campaign rolls around we want to have some

sort of sense of a candidate's moral compass because of the debacle of the nixon presidency. and that question has persisted. it is dying away now the further from nixon fell last saving at that question is in politics but one of the problems is we don't know how to ask the question. we may say are a day morally reliable? the only way to say is aryan religious? that is not a good question because of flawed assumption behind it because somebody may not be affiliated with a

particular group. it is a bad question so it was the a reversal of that paradigm. and then to speak about it so openly and freely was his deal. >> the love your closing sentence maybe he is the last one to no. what is his feedback? >> i think steve is more likely to get a review. it is just out to less than one week high just send it to him. >> he is not the last one to know. [laughter] >> to be clear to say that

he is upset settled think that is the bad thing. the world is a better place. i don't question that for a moment. he does seem to be driven even approaching 90 years old. >> but his continuing divide i think of his most recent book. >> that is not what we know him for. >> the relationship is

described as a dysfunctional marriage with a frequent separation and occasional attempts at reconciliation. when it went south was 1979 with the conservative takeover the southern baptist convention. and i asked him about this and he saw that as a wake-up call he was in trouble with the evangelicals. one of the southern baptist would visit in the white house shortly thereafter at the end of the conversation with the president he said said, president carter a lot of us are praying he will abandon religion of secular humanism is and carter goes

back and says what is secular humanism to rosalynn? [laughter] it is a thought relationship and as i am sure a lot of people know but with the conservative leadership was to end the ordination of women. i applaud him for that. >> can you explain the feelings he had at the time >> maybe steve could help me with a year. that was before the national scene.

it was a time with activists from sunday morning and seek to be seated and the church to by african-americans from the door only one other person who voted to integrate the baptist church. carter kept his piece about that until returning then he cast a lot in part because of the racial inclusiveness. >> as the episcopal priest in academia you ready

position to talk intelligently about religion in america and where it is going. [laughter] >> i know that is too broad but one example is the supreme court's recent ruling that they can now start public meetings with prayer's in the rationale was that it is not unconstitutional because it is so ceremonial. so the supreme court has ruled that a prayer does not mean anything. that is what they know. so where is religion in this country?

[laughter] [inaudible conversations] -- [applause] i would be happy to do that but it would take another lecture that the issue they you could not be more right about that.,1ññr >> is a baptist issue. to fundamental characteristics one is baptism. >> take us back to roger williams said what people ms. liz a very perceptive question. that roger williams talked about separating the garden of the church, the wilderness of the world is where it comes from.

but it comes from roger williams. but we're not members of the sierra club. it was a place of desolation and the insurer evil lurks to talk about protecting the church from the wilderness of the world and what he is saying is let's protect the that we give you an example of how this plays out. the monument with the ten commandments and others

called for extra witnesses i was one of the few baptist because roger williams was absolutely right the problem is when you do that sort of thing you trivialize and too fast for word in the case when the judge rules out that it was unconstitutional because it violated the establishment clause and the workers were preparing to remove the of wonderment the protesters screamed get your hand off my god. unless imus my guess one of those commitments says that. [laughter] that was the point.

but what the supreme court says is meaningless a trivializes the faith and that is a real danger. maybe that constitutional system with the city council from idaho or upstate new york but i am worried about the integrity of the state and that is the real danger. [applause] >> this has been a fascinating look at jimmy carter. you want to get a copy and he will be signing copies in